Comments on: Hands up whose blog helps them learn? The Charity Commission thinks you’re wrong.

By: Nick Booth

Nick Booth — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:14:50 +0000

Thanks very much for the comment (and sorry I missed you at the social media cafe yesterday). I fear your last sentence may be true. I think blogs are a good tool in the how process, I think they all help us to reconsider what we learn, encouraging people to learn what ‘they’ need as well as what the curriculum wants them to need.

By: Chrisseymour

Chrisseymour — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:50:02 +0000

Shame I didnt see this blog earlier – a fascinating discussion as it sounds like the CC and your commentators are simply talking about two very different sets of learning. Define what is learning!

The commentators have variously pointed out both the fact that they have found the process of writing a blog a critical learning experience and found other blogs informative. CC seem to be talking mostly about teaching not learning. I.e. that blogs don’t have educational value as teaching tools. They don’t teach others. it ignores the value of the learnng

They’re not the first to confuse the two, but their interpretation is worryingly out of date. the key point about the 21st century learning we’re trying to support in schools for example is that it’s all about HOW we learn rather than WHAT. Blogs are a key tool in the how process.

Hindsight is always an interesting thing as the latest and most fundamental review of primary education argues forcefully about this very thing. Iteven argues we should we teaching children more about Twitter and less about the casues of the first world war! (Guardian March 2009)

So perhaps CC is just another historical relic?

By: Podnosh Blog » Archive » RSA Education Charter on learning and creativity.

Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:43:56 +0000

[...] Very occasionally I write a post for Thriving (my hat tip for this one), I’m a school governor and also a Fellow of the RSA. The 250 year old organisation for ideas and social action is just opening its first school in Tipton in the Black Country. As I’ve written before I sometimes find myself astonished/cross by how cautious some of our major institutions are about something as important as education. So I’ve signed up to the RSA’s new educational charter (which you can do here). If you sign it this is what you’ll be supporting: [...]

By: Podnosh Blog » Archive » The Charity Commission Responds to Education and Blogging.

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:13:20 +0000

[...] A month ago I asked if your blog helped you learn. There were dozens of responses both here and on the Bad Science blog – mostly from people who keep personal or professional blogs which help them learn. (Thank you) This was all in reply to the Charity Commission using blogging as an example to try and rootle out what it means for a something to have educative value. Duncan Gotobed asked the Commission to respond to this debate for his business podcast Top Briefings (the bit on this is about two thirds of the way through. So first Il give you the Charity Commission repsonse, then Dundan’s really useful analysis then my thoughts. All this of will then be sent to the Charity Commission for them to add into their consultation. Charity Commission Response: We are aware that the reference to blogs written by individuals in our draft public benefit guidance for charities that advance education has provoked some debate, particularly among bloggers. The draft guidance was published three months ago for consultation to give charities and the public the chance to tell us what aspects of the guidance are helpful – and what isn’t clear. In the draft guidance we explain that in our view an activity will only be considered of educative merit if either the subject or the process is capable of being of educative value. We then go on to explain that where the value is not self-evident, positive evidence of merit will be needed. To illustrate this we give the example of a wiki site which, if the content of the site was not verified in any way, would need to provide positive evidence of having educational value. Similarly an individual’s blog, if its content was not verified in any way, would have to provide positive evidence of having educational value – either through its content or the process by which the information was delivered. Our consultation on this draft guidance remains open until July 11, and we encourage anyone who would like to comment on the document to respond before this date so that their comments can be considered when we draw up the final guidance later this year. It’s not the greatest reply, but to be fair there is a consultation (pdf) going on and anything you want to contribute you can do so through the email address publicbenefit@charitycommission.gov.uk. Duncan Gotobed makes some really key points in his podcast, which I’ll paraphrase here. If you write a blog about a useful subject (eg business practice) that might have educative value.Just putting the knowledge up is not educative, it would need to be part of an exercise e.g compare and contrast.To be of educative value the information has to be subjected to verification and analysis.It would need to include a route map for the audience so they are not learning by chance. My Thoughts: I think all of these are useful points and of course all can be provided through the mechanism of a blog, whether that blog is an individual blog written about personal matters of potential benefit to a student’s social learning or whether they are blogs which support learning in a subject like business studies or from an archaeologist helping learning ins history or geography. What matters about the points above is these limitations apply equally to all forms of media – to books, dvd’s, television programmes and radio programmes which might be produced or used as part of someone’s education. On top of that though blogs represent a potent new form of learning opportunity simply because they, like other social media, are much more interactive, responsive and easier to make than most old media. Because blogs hyperlink and have a conversational mechanism they allow the learner much more scope to interrogate the validity of the content than previous media whose use has been enshrined in the education system. These qualities of course strengthen their educative value. But the basic principles of whether the content and how it is presented has educative merit applies in much the same way. For that reason I would ask the Charity Commission to take out the specific reference to individual blogs and replace it with a more considered set of guidelines for the use of media in creating an environment which has educative value. There is another huge step beyond this – which is that self publishing and conversational media are drivers for growing methods of informal learning. I think at this stage the Commission is unlikely to put that in the scope of its advice, but I’d caution those writing the report. Please don’t underestimate the power of informal learning over formal learning and take care not to write something so restrictive that a future school which excels at supporting informal learning using social media would be taken to task for apparently having no educative value. [...]

By: Top Briefings Passionate People » Blog Archive » Episode 18 - Anger in the Workplace - Interview with Professor Anat Rafaeli

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:37:23 +0000

[...] The Charities Commission went head to head with bloggers over whether blogs had any educative value. Listen to what they have to say to criticisms from the podnosh and bad science blogs. To have your say email them with your comments: publicbenefit@charitycommission.gov.uk [...]

By: Nick Booth

Nick Booth — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:34:27 +0000

Bob, thanks for comment (I’ve subscribed to your blog now)

In many ways I share you’re reading. This is a consultation document and they are saying not likely to be of educational value.

However I’m also a charity trustee and I know how cautious charity boards are when it comes to messing with something as fundamental as their status as a charity all trustees will rightly be very cautious.

In practical terms if this consultation continues to keep this attitude to blogs it will mean trustees across the country will get the message don’t do blogs in any real form, it’s too risky.

That would be a great shame, especially given that in this context blogs can demonstrably have considerable educational value.

By: Bob Deed

Bob Deed — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:24:56 +0000

I read the guidance differently.

“A modern example might be a ‘wiki’ site which might contain information about historical events but, as the content is superficial and this information is not verified in any way, it would not be accepted as having educational value without positive evidence.The Commission, having been satisfied on the evidence before it, accepted in a particular case that an interactive website was a process capable of delivering educative value as it was capable of delivering learning through improving the student’s analytical and learning skills.”

In context it is giving examples rather than handing down an edict. Its talking about particular cases.

“An individual’s blog, on the other hand, is not likely to be of educative value, as neither the subject matter nor the process is of educational value.”

That’s a particular example again. Its not saying that all blogs are likely to have neither an educational subjct or process.

By: Nick Booth

Nick Booth — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:18:42 +0000

Thanks for the comment Heather and for reminding me of the time I spent at University studying the mass observation archive.

http://www.massobs.org.uk/

I’d love to know what the thinking was behind the Charity Commission deciding to dismiss a whole means of publishing as being a little educative value. We’re still waiting for them to get back to us so we can help with this consultation.

By: heather

heather — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:08:37 +0000

Very good post and some spot-on comments.

Picking up the excellent point you made (in a comment on our blog) about informal learning, this is surely the whole joy of the internet. It’s the best tool ever for real learning.

The Charity Commission sound like people dismissing Gutenberg because “real books” are only written by hand in monasteries.

They must be thinking of the “I went to the dentist and bought a packet of cornflakes” blogs, but surely even those are “educational” in showing us how people really live, like the old Mass Observation projects. (I’m not sure which decade they are from but Googling will surely find me a source….)

By: Charity begins at school » Why Dont You Blog?

Charity begins at school » Why Dont You Blog? — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:12:15 +0000

[...] I’m baffled as to why insulting blogs fits into an evaluation of whether private schools should be considered charities. Charity Commission report was brought to my attention by a badscience post that linked to a podnosh blog about it. [...]